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I kind of like , but I'm bothered by the fact it is done by a tankie who deflects human-rights abuse as soon as it's done by an authoritarian regime he believes to be communist or anti-united-states.

To mass murder done by tankies he response with, "Imao sounds like we got the fuckin high score then u fuckin lib."

How is it possible that no one is bothered by that?
... I've never seen a discussion happening about that.

What is a "tankie"?

A tankie is anyone that defends authoritarian state-capitalist dictators and the atrocities they've committed and continue to commit.

theanarchistlibrary.org/librar

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@syster

Huh? I thought the creator was leftie and was against US and supported communists states?

Interesting.

@selea @syster yeah, that's what the toot was saying. The lemmy dev apparently supports human rights abuses implicitly by not denouncing them as long as they're commited by communist states, and I assume they denounce such abuses when commited by the US or their allies.

@kungtotte

Oh, I blame my lack of knowledge in english then.
Yes, I fully agree to that..

@syster

@syster

Well, there has been attempts to talk about that - but those has been blocked and banned..

@selea oh,interesting. Where did that take place? at lemmy?

@syster hard to believe these people even exist

@syster please show me where dessalines or i ever said the quoted text. this sounds very much like baseless slander.

@syster so its a meme that i shared, obviously in a joking way. pretending that it is something i said is extremely disingenuous. if you dont want to use lemmy thats your choice, but dont slander the project by misrepresenting facts.

@felix
It's a meme, true. The method a meaning materializes does not necessary need to change its meaning.

If it would be an audio record, or just a plain text it can still have the same meaning.
"It's a meme" is not a justification for the meaning of the meme.

Actually I'd like to use Lemmy, but there is some content that I see being shared by you (lead dev of lemmy) that I find troubling.

@syster there is a difference between sharing a meme that makes a joking statement, and actually making that statement. if you cant tell that difference then i cant help you.

tankie 

@felix
Here a different format. The meme in plain words:

Imagine you as a tankie are confronted with the amount of people killed by tankies. Cool tankie kid don't respond with "The number of people killed by communism is greatly exaggerated"

The cool self-confident tankie kid response with: "Imao sounds like we got the fuckin high score then u fuckin lib"

You shared this. You claim to be marxist-leninist (tankie as others also call it). "Hidden" in "joking way" you promoted mass murder

@felix my issue is not the format, my issue is the meaning.

tankie 

@syster stop trying to slander me, i couldnt care less whether you use lemmy or not.

@felix
So you wish to refrain from the discussion?

I have an opinion, but I am open for dialectics. If you don't care about the syntheses (conclusion) I'm going to form that's fine, but your request I should refrain from addressing issues I see related to development and its politics behind is as pointless as a lib claiming "tech is neutral and should remain neutral".

@syster i am not going to have a discussion with someone who is out to discredit my project with misleading claims. if you have a problem with lemmy, just stay on reddit or use one of the many other developers instead of wasting my time.

I don't know either of you, but as a casual observer of this thread, to me that meme you shared was really bad taste @felix.

i agree that @syster did originally seem to suggest you said that directly, which was a bit misleading, but given you haven't explicitly disowned the sentiment I think they have a point.

"It was just a joke" has been used to cover up too many nasty sentiments.

@nicksellen @syster do you seriously want to start policing bad taste posts on mastodon? then boy do you have a lot of work ahead of you.

@felix @nicksellen

whataboutism is not an excuse to justify legitimizing genocide and even finding it funny to do so.

All you do after being confronted because of this behavior is "But...".
You continue to justify it.

@syster @nicksellen Actually I found Eduard Siddon's writings on this topic very insightful. Did you read that by any chance?

@syster bad taste is on the side of liberals playing the "black book of communism" card in a discussion en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blac
THAT card is played as a whataboutist move and trivializes the subject

instead, mocking the card (what the meme delivers) does NOT trivialize the subject

here in #italy is said "e allora le foibe?", blatant fascist dog-whistle so blatant it is hard to call it a dog-whistle
there is a comedian mocking the said: invidio.us/watch?v=ceud1y0Oy7k does she trivialize the deaths? or do anti-communists trivialize the death tool, being the estimated tool ranging across FOUR orders of magnitude (from several hundreds to millions)?

@felix @nicksellen

@nicksellen
I agree with you. I could have made this more clear, and link the meme directly.
At least it would have avoid some parts of the confusion.

@syster @felix how do you concern troll a joke thats clearly about concern trolling lmao

@felix

Well that depends on what kind of meme it is? If someone would share a meme about the far-right normalizing them - would that be ok too?

@syster

@felix @syster

I am not following, so I would love to if you explained it :)

@selea @syster i mean communism is really the same as fascism, am i right fellow liberal?

@felix

If a ideology brings violence or force - I consider that as bad.
But I rather be a communist than a fascist for sure, and I guess there is different types of communism aswell.

Personally, I am coming from a hard-core religious conservative background, and I am spending some time to "deprogram" myself from the damage that has done. I am not sure that posting pictures without context helps in "deconverting" me from that :)

@syster

@selea @felix @syster
The more I learn about religion the more I see how well "engineered" are they for control purposes (of people). And the more I read Eastern philosophy/religion the more I think they are on the right path.

Take time to familiarize with Confucianism, Buddhism and so on. Example: the so called "civilized world" doesn't have a concept like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahi%E1%B

hi @syster the meme is clearly referring to black book of communism and similar works, and how they are used as instruments to win discussions by liberals* trivializing the subject

n.b. LIBERALS trivialize the subject, not the meme! when the "black book" card is played, discussion usually ends

I think you have not backed up by the proper information to understand the meme, therefore you are driven towards unsubstantiated claim

* liberals: supporters of capitalism as the best possible system

@felix

@syster as an anarchist, I don't understand how this meme makes one a "tankie". It's just calling attention to a foolish argument anticommunists make.

@syster Where are all my fellow anarchists doing their social media these days?

@syster Unfortunately it's kind of trendy to be a communist now, especially in largely left-leaning spaces like the STEM fields. It's a real shame.

@swashberry Depending one the definition one applies to communism, I'm very fine with it.

"a stateless, classless, moneyless society with common ownership of the means of production"

Sounds great. But those days, when people refer to communism, say mostly refer to a form of state-capitalism, following Lenin's footsteps.

1/3

@swashberry "State capitalism would be a step forward as compared with the present state of affairs in our Soviet Republic. If in approximately six months time state capitalism became established in our Republic, this would be a great success and a sure guarantee that within a year socialism will have gained a permanently firm hold and will have become invincible in this country.", Lenin.

2/3

@swashberry
And then they attacked those that practiced sort of communism, destroyed their culture (and many lifes), established state-capitalism. And tankies believe this is something legit to do.
You destry communities that organize in some sort of communism to bring them state-capitalism because this will be socialism and then lead to communism. What?

And then they come to us:
"You are against unity, this is bad."

Tankies and the Left-Unity Scam
theanarchistlibrary.org/librar
3/3

@syster @swashberry ah yes, I see: ziq as reliable source...
"If you welcome tankies into your spaces, if you engage tankies in civil discourse, if you entertain their repugnant ideas or buy into their absurd notions of "left unity" and enable their attempts to create divisions between anarchists and sow discord, then they have already succeeded in poisoning your movement and rendering it useless."

I might suggest a diverse attitude towards the subject: invidio.us/watch?v=n3R3rWyJXpA
#nuance #noncompete

@syster
There are a few FOSS projects I'm interested in of which I'm troubled by the authors' political views or general behaviour. What to do when there is no free alternative? And BTW I haven't seen much discussion about them either.

@normandc
In regards of lemmy, if I'm correct there are alternatives. Lemmy is not the first atempt to create a federated reddit alike plattfrom. Unfortunatly I forgot the names of the others, and I believe their development is also stock. The community support Lemmy recieves could switch to another plattform, and may activate their development again.
Another option could be that confronting the the dev of lemmy results in then changing their mind, but I doupt.

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