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My girlfriend got angry at me when I pointed out drinking coffee is same as taking drugs.

Coffee has a lot of caffeine which has
1) No nutritive value
2) Acts as stimulant (of course a mild one)
3) People repeat it, over time the amount of coffee people take increases to produce the same effect.

Just because everyone drinks it doesn't make it something good.

@groff @redstarfish Caffeine is one of the four legal recreational drugs:
Alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, and sugar.

@groff @redstarfish Side note: if one takes a total lack of nutritive value seriously, then alcohol is not a drug either, which doesn't make any sense.

Plus, fructose is treated almost exactly like alcohol by the body's filtration systems.

@urusan @redstarfish In what jurisdiction? I have access to a canabis store and others can get legal shrooms.

@groff @redstarfish US in general (still schedule 1 as ridiculous as that is), though that may change soon.

@urusan @redstarfish It is absurd, but fortunately the DEA and Justice Dept have chosen not to intervene where states have legalized. The only reason canabis was made sched. 1 is bigotry and religious fanaticism.

@redstarfish similarly, that doesn't make it necessarily bad, as long as you're not an extreme user.
@redstarfish Coffee can be seen as stimulant but not necessarily as addictive drug. That depends on how much you drink it. Just one cup every morning isn't likely to form addiction.

People who make themselves coffee dependent are different tho.

@alex
I have no real horse in this race, but "Just one [dose] every morning isn't likely to form addiction." can be said about a LOT of addictive substances, amd if you just s/every morning/once a week, then most drugs.
@redstarfish

@alex @redstarfish @aladar I am not drug user so I have little experience there... but maybe when it comes to these substances we should pay less attention to the substances themselves and more to substance abuse.

I know some people who smoke weed and I can't call them addicts because they only do it every now and then and don't seem to suffer from addiction. Also I know some people who clearly are addicted to sugar (and they are not diagnosed with diabetes, not yet at least) - if they break sugar consumption habits they become miserable.

It is hard to draw clear line here...

@alex
Thats a completely different debate, though. Admitting that something is a drug is also the first step toward talking about abuse - see tobacco, alcohol...
@redstarfish

@alex @redstarfish
Or, of course, alrernatively, stopping demonizimng other drugs wuld be the most ideal way to accomplish the same goal

@redstarfish
Agree #caffeine is a drug and that too many people have way too much.

#Nestle and likely other big brands of coffee have also been known to have dangerously high levels of #glyphosate, which sources have said is to speed the drying of the product. So most coffee today is probably considered #carcinogenic too.

But we know people who are extremely moderate in there intake one a day, and they go days without it. They don't need increasingly more.

Many who abuse…1/3

@redstarfish
@alex
@groff@mastdon.social
2/3…caffeine likely abuse it consciously from the start to perform "better" in whatever job they are doing. They may develop an addiction and wreck their own bodies but that is their choice to abuse the substance.

A lot of things have caffeine, eg. #chocolate.

#Sugar is often considered a drug, it's put in food with #fats to create a physical reaction in the body that repricates the feeling of sucking a mother's teat. #Fastfood outlets and…2/3

@redstarfish
@alex
@groff
3/3… #junkFood producers are known to strive to make every mouthful of their product have this ratio of fat and sugar, to create addicted consumers.

So yes almost anything can be considered a drug or therapeutic, the important thing is whether a person is addicted. If your girlfriend is able to moderated her intake then using the odd stimulant on occasion is likely perfectly fine.

But do beware of #nescafe, #moconna and any other non-organic brands.

@redstarfish people also go through caffeine withdrawals.
Caffeine is obviously a drug (going by medical definition) but what I find concerning is your implication that drugs are inherently "not good." Drugs are not inherently good or bad; and, it's not simple to always evaluate the relationship that someone has with a drug. I use drugs all the time but I have a healthy relationship with the substances I use.

@redstarfish and also important: unlike herb tea or malt coffee production and transportation is deeply rooted in exploitation of labor and nature of poorer countries.

@redstarfish

This is why I think that weed and other non-harmful drug should be legal.

@selea @redstarfish Weed has harmful sides effects if managed incorrectly.

@selea @redstarfish Indeed. The point is that all compounds have ups and downs

@redstarfish You're forgetting that coffee is rich in the single most important essential nutrient -- water!

Also, probably has some amount of some micro-nutrients as well.

@redstarfish

I don't know of any person whose life has been ruined by caffeine consumption.
Also, caffeine tolerance does not equal addiction. A somewhat more difficult week of abstinence gets you back to zero.
And as for the health effects, there seem to be both good and bad aspects to it, as opposed to most legal and illegal drugs, where the negative Effects dominate in the long term.

So yeah, i do get why your girlfrend got pissed when you basically called her a drug addict.

@redstarfish
Medical and pharmaceutical studies have concluded that moderate consumption of coffee (2 expressos/day or equivalent) can prevent some heart diseases.

@redstarfish

and soda also contains caffeine and sugar. The latter is even more addictive than cocaine.

Point is there are a lot of drugs and addictive substances we consume, and they are able to be consumed in moderation.

A Saturday night toke is no more harmful than someone getting diabetes from eating too many donuts.

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