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"Modern" websites consist of:

1. Trackers
2. More trackers
3. Cookie popups (They wouldn't need this if it weren't for the trackers)
4. Intentional annoying popups (Sign up to our newsletter, "Sign up to this Page using Google/Facebook", etc.)
6. Advertisements!
7. More Advertisements
8. Fancy (but useless and unnecessary) widgets
9. Finally, the content you were looking for (Less than 15% of the page)

Oh also:

Login buttons, Fancy styling, Useless animations, Search bars and many other things.

It's ridiculous that websites are made this way, to intentionally sabotage the user and to not care about ethical design.

These "additions" introduce technical, ethical and accessibility problems and are not useful.

So design your site with accessibility and ethical tech in mind first!
</rant>

@oklomsy If your site doesn't work without js I'm not going to use it, that's my stance on the whole thing.

@sotolf what on earth can you actually DO on the internet then

I agree with you completely, but how do you manage that

@oklomsy

@swansinflight @oklomsy I use no-script, so if I really want to use a site I whitelist some of the sources until it starts working enough, trying to be careful not to unblock trackers. The thing is if someone post a link to a blog or a news site or something that shouldn't need js, and I can't even read the text I just close the site ;)

@sotolf mmh. Yeah been there, and I spent more time enabling stuff to use sites I actually wanted to use, I gave up.

I know, I shouldn't, as that's how they win. But my time 😔

Maybe I should give it another go.

@oklomsy

@swansinflight @oklomsy once you have a base of some whitelistings I don't really find it to be that bad, but it might be that I'm used to using a subset of webpages that work well without js already :p

@swansinflight @sotolf @oklomsy I seem to recall running into a service recently that could scrape modern websites to be usable for really old browsers. Kind of seems like the sort of thing I want to see everywhere.

@oklomsy @sotolf @swansinflight i use noscript in firefox for random browsing, and safari/chrome for sites i trust. if something random needs js i copy the url to a chrome incognito window

@oklomsy @swansinflight @64 @sotolf

that’s reminded me - there are some sites that don’t work in safari so I switch to Firefox, but bc I rarely use it I don’t have it set up with blockers (unless I did & forgot, which is entirely possible).

The last website I purchased something through was a nightmare. Designed to prevent me buying things I wanted.

@sotolf@social.linux.pizza @oklomsy@social.linux.pizza Unfortunately that is becoming akin to someone insisting they won't use a telephone. 🤡🌎

@astora @oklomsy why would a site need to execute code on my machine to just show me text, it's crazy.

@sotolf@social.linux.pizza @oklomsy@social.linux.pizza You don't understand,, i NEED to show you personalised ads;; otherwise I can't afford my lifestyle,;, you wwouldn't want me to starve on the streets wwould you,,

@sotolf @oklomsy when creating websites I do my best to use as little javascript as possible, but some things just aren't possible without javascript, like for example mobile navigation

@gloopsies @oklomsy Well, as long as your site degrades gracefully, that means I can read the text and navigate the site without js being activated I don't really have many problems with that :)

@gloopsies @sotolf @oklomsy tapping links and scrolling via touchscreen works without javascript...
@gloopsies @oklomsy @sotolf I'm preparing for the "what about drop-down menus" argument...
Well...
1. maybe consider not having so many links on your website
- or, if you must -
2. have a fallback on tapping the "parent" page, it takes the viewer to an index page of further pages in that section
@sotolf @oklomsy @gloopsies
The amount of times, as an IT guy, I have to tell web designers how to web design properly is incredible.

:blobfox3cevil:

@paul @oklomsy @gloopsies Well I have about 0 design sense, my usual design practice is mocking up something, and just fixing things that people find unintuitive :p which is slow, but makes basic looking things that usually are easy to use, at least after a while :p

@oklomsy It's such a good example of how profiteering ruins things, when you start using one of those "alternative frontends" for popular sites, that are way faster, don't have all the garbage, work without JS, and are generally just better, and made by volunteers for free who manage to create something better and more accessible than well-paid teams.
You get all the things you came for.
The rest is just a complete waste.

@oklomsy we let build websites the marketing staff, not the developers 🤷‍♂️

@oklomsy All of this costs ridiculous amounts of energy. Advertising really accelerates climate change and has always done so (even when it was limited to print). And that doesn't even take into consideration the unnecessary crap it's trying to sell us.

@oklomsy some news websites seem to dedicate even less space to the actual news

@oklomsy with a wider and more readable width than the actual news :blobfacepalm:

@oklomsy it is always amazingly annoying... I more or less try to force my customers when building websites to accept that content goes first and you don't need all that 'fancy' looking shit on your website for it to be effective...

@oklomsy 9a. A 15 page novel about how the writer of the article's life lead them to finding the information in the article and how their life has changed now that they know it.

@oklomsy and if it's a recipe
10. The posters life-story intersperced with ads and affiliate links taking up 90% of the page with the final 10% being the recipe you went there for.

The button you actually want to click also bounces around dozens of times because the ads are slow to load.

@oklomsy that's why discerning consumers use three or more blockers!@ (uBlock, Privacy Badger, Firefox's Extended Tracking Protection, VPN Netshield)

what amazes me is that sites loaded with all that shit blocked still actually look normal.

@oklomsy The only progress we've made over the last few decades is kick Flash to the curb. Remember how some sites used to be one big steaming pile of Flash? Especially restaurant sites and places that wanted to stand out.

I don't even like the sites that have little video bits playing. Moving stuff stresses me out when I'm trying to read. I don't care if you think it's shiny, just show me a picture or embed a video if you feel that strongly about it. Sigh.

@trezzer Yeah holy crap, I am glad that Flash is gone. Also remember Java Applets? I am glad they're gone too and also Silverlight.

@oklomsy Oh yeah. And for a while everything government-oriented was Java because you could write once, run some places sometimes. Don't miss RealPlayer and early QuickTime either. Although QuickTime VR was fun for five minutes.

@oklomsy
We somehow have to introduce those 9 things to Gemini :ablobthinking:

@oklomsy
10. Paywall once you’ve reached 25% of the content you were looking for.

@oklomsy it's been almost 30 years, we don't need the cookie popups, it's just a stupid EU law.
Cookie popups are the result of websites that want to track the shit out of you, being faced with a law that says you need consent.

And actually I believe it's recently been ruled that they're not legal either because nagging people to consent isn't really consent.
@cjd @Moon @oklomsy It was illegal from the start.
consent needs to be free and the default and simplest answer should be a flat out no.
Should just define an http header:
GDPR-Consent: false

Done.

Also fuck every website which sends back an HTTP 451. If you want to ban Europeans from your site because they say you can't spy on people, whatever, that's your right. But invoking Fahrenheit 451 here is the depths of scummyness, which predictably is mostly newspaper websites.
@cjd @oklomsy I get that, I just think the consent warning should pop up the first time you use the browser and never again because everyone should know by now that the default assumption should be every site is tracking you.
From an individual perspective, that seems like a fair point of view. On the other hand, government has a legitimate interest in preventing companies like GOOG and FB from having so much information about their citizens that they can light-touch control society, so I'm also ok with the Hey Motherfucker approach...
@cjd @Moon @oklomsy government also has an incentive to use that same information collected by big tech for their own intelligence operations
@lanodan @cjd @Moon @oklomsy you don't think European governments use data in the same way? What about he ones who are members of 5 or 9 eyes? There is a lot of international information sharing going on these days. If your government can't spy on you they know someone who can and will report back their findings.
@thatguyoverthere @cjd @Moon @oklomsy European members have an exception granted, otherwise they would also be kicked out of managing personal data, which would be quite funny.
@cjd @oklomsy I understand and agree with your concern. I would be okay with browsers just not allowing cross-domain requests by default. Or even, giving you a simple popup that works like a firewall that gives you the option to allow a cross-site request. And that option can be set to default-allow by an intentional act by the user.
Yeah, they're slowly imposing more restrictions. Mostly Apple putting the screws to everyone with Safari which is the only thing they allow on iPhone (another problem lol).
I was working on a thing using cross-domain cookies for storing cryptographic signing keys and that stuff is no longer allowed.
@cjd @oklomsy Basically the thing I'm trying to solve, which could be a technical solution, is every site not bugging me about some law. And having that solution be scalable, like not having to be reimplemented for every new law, just a system that lets you flip a switch once and only once. The pain point in the current system for me is that I believe that knowledge you are being tracked should be basic Internet usage literacy, even if it's an undesirable state of reality.Want a browser setting that lets you choose cross-site yes, cross-site no, ask, and has an exceptions list.

It may also help to mention that I am militantly against dumbing down interfaces to lowest common denominator user. I am ok with the feature being more annoying than the gdpr cookies so long as it's configurable in one place.
@cjd @oklomsy btw I'm glad you're on a server I can talk to now because I like your posts.
Thanks :D I'm also really happy chatting with The Mirror Fediverse, way more relaxed and fun people.
> overlay removers

That sounds useful. Any particular FF extension ?
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